Transkribering: Debatt om agentisk handel

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[00:03] David Sykes: Hi everyone. Hi.

[00:04] Fredrik Solvang: Hi. Sorry, I fell for that one. So, as I said, David — AI-driven traffic to online stores in the US has grown by more than 4700% in one year. Amazing. Is agentic commerce something Norwegian e-commerce merchants need to act on now?

[00:41] David Sykes: Look, I think they should. I think two things are happening. One, consumer adoption of these products is growing rapidly, and the range of tasks consumers use LLMs for is increasing every day. So you've got consumer adoption of LLMs becoming an everyday affair, coupled with development within the products themselves increasing incredibly quickly. I don't know if everybody in the audience follows these things, but the pace at which Claude, for example, is shipping new functionality is unbelievable. So you have consumer adoption growing very quickly and the capabilities of the products themselves growing very quickly.

[01:32] David Sykes: So I think your base assumption should be that in the very near future a meaningful share of all your transactions are being made by a non-human agent. And the reason I think you should think about that now is: every day you're making choices — design choices, checkout choices, inventory choices — and I think you should be making those choices with an understanding that in the very near future a very large number of your transactions are going to be made by an agent. So it's something to think about now. I see it happening already, and in a very short period of time it's going to be a really meaningful share of checkout.

[02:13] Fredrik Solvang: All right, but I think we need to get back to basics. Would you care to just explain what we're talking about?

[02:23] Vegar Wikhammer Heir: I think right now, in the short term, we're talking about shoppers doing research through LLM agents. We haven't seen — at least not in Europe yet — the agent buying on your behalf or paying inside the LLM. But we did a survey with users in Vipps a few weeks back, and already now users say they're using LLMs for product research more than they use social media. So even to your earlier question — should stores act now — I think this is already happening. It's not something we could stop or just watch and wait. Users are using LLMs even though they're still developing, and the quality is improving every month. Users are in the LLMs, and they're exploring your products as part of that journey right now.

[03:14] Fredrik Solvang: So Klarna launched the agentic protocol back in December 2025. What is it?

[03:29] David Sykes: When we looked at the space, we felt that most companies were focused on the actual transaction — how do you facilitate a payment in agentic e-commerce, how do you know the agent has a mandate to spend, how does chargeback work. Everybody was focused on the transaction. Our view was that the bigger problem to solve was actually the product catalog. People underestimate how challenging it is to ingest product feeds from thousands of different merchants. Some say "iPhone 17," some just say "iPhone." Some say the iPhone is waterproof, some don't. Some use a SKU, some don't. Taking all of those product feeds, identifying that this is the same product, and then determining which one you're going to surface to a consumer — that's a really hard problem.

[04:20] David Sykes: So what we wanted to ensure was that there was an easy way for e-commerce brands and retailers to make sure their inventory was accessible by consumers when they're using these agents, using these LLMs. Effectively, all the product protocol does is make sure your inventory is machine-readable. It takes your inventory, puts it in a consistent format, and makes it easy for a machine to read. That means the chances you'll surface in these queries — the chances a customer will actually be able to complete a transaction — significantly increase. Is it in stock? Is it on sale? Is the right size available? These are all things you can answer with the product protocol, because for 20 years we've optimized for search engine optimization.

[05:09] David Sykes: Everybody in this room is really good at making sure their brand surfaces. The next challenge is: how do you make sure that when somebody types "I'm looking for the best microwave," it's your microwave? Because the LLM is going to suggest three products — how do you make sure yours is one of them? We thought the product protocol was a really efficient way of doing that.

[05:30] Fredrik Solvang: They've given AI agents access to something like 100 million products across 12 markets. What happens to the merchants who aren't in that feed?

[05:47] Vegar Wikhammer Heir: We launched with the agent protocol from Klarna. We launched an AI shopping agent inside Vipps and started experimenting, using some of these product lines that are readily available now. I think the next step is for merchants to make sure their product catalog is readily available and that data is pooled so it's accessible for AI agents — whether that's the big LLMs or something more localized.

[06:20] Fredrik Solvang: Then — one year, two years, five years out — what happens if you're invisible to this AI-driven commerce?

[06:30] Vegar Wikhammer Heir: That's the risk every shop is facing. We've been in that kind of risk before with social media marketing. Everything is about your brand, the customer experience, and I truly believe that will survive in an AI-driven shopping experience too. Users have a relationship with you as a brand, and that relationship will continue to live inside AI agents. The AI agents will have preferences of their own, but those preferences will be derived from consumer preference. You just have to make sure your products are available.

[07:01] Fredrik Solvang: How do they make sure they're not losing control? Because that's, I guess, one of the biggest fears.

[07:08] David Sykes: Yeah, building on that — it's very normal to be scared about what's going to happen here. Retailers were nervous when the internet arrived too. But you always have to meet the customer where they are — that's the key, that's the truth. Ultimately the consumer is going to do what's best for them, and that's going to be using these products. So you can either lean in and try to meet the customer where they are, or sit this one out — and I think sitting this one out is going to work out really badly for retailers. So what can they do? What you all do today: build a fantastic brand, create an emotional connection with the consumer, build great products.

[07:49] David Sykes: To your point — the agent doesn't have a preference, it reflects the consumer's preference. So the answer is to just double down on all the things you do well today, and make sure the customer chooses you. I always think about it from a payment perspective, because it's as true for me as it is for you: the agent is now the one picking the button at checkout. So what do I do? I always make sure I'm the best button to press. You wake up every day thinking: how do we make sure we're the best button to press? You'll have to do the same — continue to build the best brand, ship the best product, and meet the consumer where they are, which is in these products.

[08:26] Fredrik Solvang: Is it a legitimate fear, though, that they're at risk of losing control of the whole experience — the checkout?

[08:36] David Sykes: Yeah. Anytime there's someone sitting between you and the customer, you lose something — whether that's Amazon Marketplace, Walmart Marketplace, or a customer discovering you through Google. That's, to an extent, life. These are such powerful distribution channels that you have to weigh the pros of reaching a huge audience against the cons of losing total control. So I don't think it's any different than today, when a customer discovers you through Google, to be honest.

[09:24] Fredrik Solvang: Sorry — [en kort replikk på norsk til Vegar]. But you at Vipps — you launched an AI shopping assistant and tested it during Black Week.

[09:55] Vegar Wikhammer Heir: Yes, we launched it just before Black Week last year, in-app shopping. Surprisingly high adoption — we didn't even market it, just turned it on in the Vipps app. Our approach is to test out these kinds of new shopping experiences inside Vipps, inviting key merchants to join in developing a more Nordic, local way of doing AI shopping. We think AI shopping won't only be part of the big LLMs like OpenAI and Google — it will also be part of retailer and shop sites, and part of many different apps. Developing that customer experience is one of Vipps's strategies going forward.

[10:38] Fredrik Solvang: And if agentic e-commerce becomes the new interface for shopping online — a new layer — are you worried this layer will also become an international market that the big international tech companies just take over?

[10:59] Vegar Wikhammer Heir: I think the tech development, and the growth of some of these hugely advanced AI models, means we're risking these becoming very powerful platforms. Being part of those platforms is going to be tough even for Nordic, maybe European, companies. That's the game going forward. I don't think the game is lost yet, because we have strong brands in the Norwegian and Nordic markets. And the positive side is that e-commerce is going to grow tremendously out of this — but it's going to change through that growth for some.

[11:35] Fredrik Solvang: Is it an uphill battle, though? You spent years fighting Apple — and you finally became, what, the world's first NFC alternative? Are you going to spend years fighting Apple again?

[11:57] Vegar Wikhammer Heir: I think at least the development is moving much faster now. The European development in this area is already quite regulated when it comes to payment security and so on — you need trust, GDPR. So I think we can move forward quite fast in Europe with the support of GDPR and other regulations, so we can develop services that are truly Nordic and European alternatives to some of the more unregulated services elsewhere.

[12:27] Fredrik Solvang: Right. And what's an online store or merchant to do then — how do you choose, when there are something like ten protocols out there now?

[12:40] David Sykes: Yeah, there are a lot. If you look at it from Klarna's perspective, we're integrating with almost all of them — making sure Klarna is available whether or not you've adopted Google's MCP, or leaned into Stripe and OpenAI. There's definitely almost a protocol race happening right now. I don't think retailers need to stress too much about which protocol — even if the individual protocols aren't necessarily interoperable, the agent will understand any of them. So pick one — it doesn't matter much which, as long as it's one of the big ones. If you go Google, if you go Stripe, you'll be fine.

[13:22] David Sykes: My advice for retailers is just this: the internet and the explosion of mobile devices were an opportunity for retailers. A lot of retailers were obviously very apprehensive about what that meant for brick and mortar, but ultimately it was an opportunity. This is an opportunity too — an opportunity to grow your business and reach more consumers. And as scary as AI is — and there are potentially negative consequences from AI that society needs to work through — it is a tremendous time to be a builder. It has never been as possible to build at scale this quickly. It's a really exciting time to be a builder, and everybody in this room is an entrepreneur, a builder.

[14:10] David Sykes: You all have companies, you're all growing those companies — it's never been easier. Just as all these other big changes were opportunities, this is an opportunity, and I'd really lean into it, because I think you're going to have some really big winners. People are going to grow their businesses. It's a really exciting time. As scary as it is in many areas, it's also really exciting.

[14:31] Fredrik Solvang: There's no risk in picking wrong, though?

[14:33] David Sykes: If you go with one of the big ones, you'll be fine — your products will be accessible to agents.

[14:41] Vegar Wikhammer Heir: Let me add to that, because it might feel sad that you've spent the last five years building the perfect customer flow on your website, and now people aren't going to visit it anymore. That's not going to happen. But I do agree with David on the growth potential — I think we're looking at growth in e-commerce similar to what we saw during the pandemic. E-commerce is still only 25–30% of total retail volume in the Norwegian market, so doubling e-commerce in an agentic wave is completely possible. And the user journeys that come out of agentic commerce are going to be a much better shopping experience than going to a physical store.

[15:21] Fredrik Solvang: So what should they do — close down their homepages, or...?

[15:25] Vegar Wikhammer Heir: Please make sure your data is readable through protocols or otherwise, so your products are discoverable and readable. That's the first step.

[15:34] Fredrik Solvang: That's a step forward. Okay — in this agentic commerce, is Klarna getting closer to their customers? To your customers?

[15:45] David Sykes: That's a good question. What's my goal? My boss describes my job in a very simple way: he just wants Klarna to be everywhere. Visa is accepted at 150 million locations — we're accepted at one million. So I've got a lot of work to do. When I think about the opportunity in agentic commerce, it's just another opportunity for me to make Klarna more available — so that whether or not it's your preferred way to shop, if it is, we want to make sure you can shop with us everywhere.

[16:19] David Sykes: Whether it's getting closer or not — what I work really hard on is, well, think about our partnership with Vipps. Why did we partner with Vipps? Because we knew this was how people in Norway wanted to pay. So rather than try to get them onto Klarna, we meet the customer where they are and put Klarna inside Vipps. Same with merchants — we're not asking merchants to integrate Klarna anymore, we say: integrate Vipps. So that's how we look at this — it's just another opportunity for us to get Klarna in front of more customers who want to use our services.

[16:46] Fredrik Solvang: How about you — isn't this just another layer between the customer and the store?

[16:55] Vegar Wikhammer Heir: Absolutely. But I think the need for trust is even bigger now than in current shopping processes. From some customer research we've done, 80% aren't ready to leave their payment details with an AI shopping agent, or let the agent shop on their behalf. As a payment wallet, maybe we can take care of that trust layer — a trusted brand with trusted payment methods inside, where you can approve or decline these payments through your wallet. That's an additional layer that adds value not just to the customer journey, but to the trust and security for shops on these platforms.

[17:35] Fredrik Solvang: Is it true, David, that you replaced 700 customer service agents with AI, and then reversed course because you regretted it?

[17:47] David Sykes: That's the headline, but it's a bit more nuanced. We built an agent that could handle roughly the same volume as about 700 people. What was really an interesting lesson for us, though, is that people want to speak to people. Even when the agent gave the perfect answer, if it wasn't the answer the person wanted, they still wanted to talk to a human. That was a really powerful lesson about the limitations of these tools. It wasn't that the agent was ever wrong — it was actually really accurate, gave great advice — it just sometimes wasn't the advice the customer wanted. And when that happens, people want to speak to a human.

[18:27] David Sykes: So we now have an initiative called "Always Human" — making sure we have really high-quality human customer service, because we know that's what people want. And the other interesting thing is that customer service bots have been so bad for so long that even now, when you get a good one, people still say "I want to speak to a person." So you're battling against 15 years of really bad bots that trained people to expect that — and, well, it's just nice to talk to people.

[18:59] Fredrik Solvang: Yeah, of course. You've integrated with Google's agent payment protocol, OpenAI's agentic commerce protocol, and Stripe's shared payment tokens — three different protocols. Is this going to fragment the way the internet has fragmented?

[19:21] David Sykes: Look, I think the days of — the most famous protocol of all time is HTTP. The days of there being one dominant protocol, I think, are hard to imagine happening again. So we picked some of the ones we think have the highest likelihood of success. There will be more, and we'll integrate with more — we just want to make sure we're broadly covered.

[19:49] Fredrik Solvang: I know you've also partnered with Google.

[19:52] Vegar Wikhammer Heir: Yeah, we're working with all the players you mentioned. Size matters in the discussion with these players, so that's a challenge going forward — one I think some of these stores will recognize too. It's an everlasting size battle to be in the right place for the customers.

[20:08] Fredrik Solvang: And there's nothing ironic about that?

[20:12] Vegar Wikhammer Heir: I think growth will matter going forward, but you also need trust, a strong brand, and local adaptation — many of these players, who are now building global services, have to adapt to local conditions to meet the users, because they're often the same users we're servicing.

[20:30] Fredrik Solvang: Would you be able to develop this from scratch?

[20:35] Vegar Wikhammer Heir: I think partnerships are the way forward here. We have to build a customer journey based on partnerships that gives customers a fantastic way of shopping — built on local trust, local product catalogs, and maybe some global technology. Those things combined will bring agentic commerce forward.

[20:56] Fredrik Solvang: So — the one thing a Norwegian e-commerce store or merchant should do tomorrow when it comes to agentic commerce — what's your tip?

[21:09] Vegar Wikhammer Heir: I think we touched on it on the data side — making sure your search engine optimization becomes LLM optimization readiness. But then, do pilots, experiment with an agentic shopping journey on your own website — do it yourself. That's at least one way to understand and experiment, and to check your customers' interest in these journeys. And of course, have a relevant payment method.

[21:34] Fredrik Solvang: Yeah, exactly.

[21:36] David Sykes: And tactically — make sure you have inventory and a product catalog that's machine-readable. You need structured data — it's not a human reading it, it's a machine, so make sure it's machine-readable. And more generally, I can't emphasize enough: lean in. This is a really exciting time. The space is moving so fast that the only way to keep up is, to your point, to try lots of different things — run pilots, alternate between the different models, because every two weeks one jumps ahead of the other with a new feature. It's a really exciting time.

[22:16] Fredrik Solvang: It is exciting. Thank you so much, David and Vegar. Thank you.